"For most companies, trading some caution for speed is a reasonable call. Proton is a privacy company, though, and what its users pay for is the confidence that the people building it are careful. Shipping slowly and carefully is part of what they’re selling"
This is the core of it for me. There are many, maaany companies that don't want to be what they are. For example: Meta doesn't want to be a social media company - so it lets facebook rot, makes 10% of its total revenue from scammers advertising to its customers, which seem to mostly be vulnerable old people and focuses on VR and AI.
I guess Proton is having that same problem. I don't really want to be part of that though.
This just confirms to me that the devs who are furthest from users (platform and security folks) are still in denial about AI for coding. The idea that they continue to react to security and privacy threats by relying on hand-crafted code is ostrich-like denial of the reality of daily security breaches at much larger, better resourced companies.
AI is a tool - like a compiler or a pen-testing tool or maybe like an uber-tool that can do all those things and more. It's not hard. 24 hours - put your best pentester against GLM-5.3 abliterated (host locally, so there's no data leakage to LLM providers). You know who will win and it won't even be close.
What is it about AI psychosis that makes leaders act like assholes?
I'm a technical co-founder. I definitely think that me and my team need to push ourselves to rethink how we work. Sometimes I have to push top-down, but I'd rather this happen in a measured way that's a combination of bottoms-up and top-down.
I thought it was more, devs refused to use AI that caused the ceo to respond (in a bad way)
I agree, you cant just let AI take over critical projects, but to not use AI, is just letting the bad guys use AI against you. Its a tool, use the tool, make the tool work for you.
"For most companies, trading some caution for speed is a reasonable call. Proton is a privacy company, though, and what its users pay for is the confidence that the people building it are careful. Shipping slowly and carefully is part of what they’re selling"
This is the core of it for me. There are many, maaany companies that don't want to be what they are. For example: Meta doesn't want to be a social media company - so it lets facebook rot, makes 10% of its total revenue from scammers advertising to its customers, which seem to mostly be vulnerable old people and focuses on VR and AI.
I guess Proton is having that same problem. I don't really want to be part of that though.
> Beyond the clumsiness, it shows a leadership that now treats the constraints that made Proton worth paying for as the thing slowing it down.
Exactly. The product is security and privacy. The thing being sold is that. If anyone could justify being slower to pentest, it is Proton.
I do wonder who would be demanding that Proton move faster. Would any user of their service ask them to sacrifice these attributes?
This just confirms to me that the devs who are furthest from users (platform and security folks) are still in denial about AI for coding. The idea that they continue to react to security and privacy threats by relying on hand-crafted code is ostrich-like denial of the reality of daily security breaches at much larger, better resourced companies.
AI is a tool - like a compiler or a pen-testing tool or maybe like an uber-tool that can do all those things and more. It's not hard. 24 hours - put your best pentester against GLM-5.3 abliterated (host locally, so there's no data leakage to LLM providers). You know who will win and it won't even be close.
Related:
"Manifestos, Fear, and 'Loser Thinking': Inside Proton's AI Reckoning" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50289692 90 comments
"Proton goes all in on using AI" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50296602 117 comments
"Proton to 'Re-Interview' Staff About AI to See Who Gets to Keep Their Job" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50251062 48 comments
"Proton's CEO Cancels AI 'Re-Interviews" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50307183 254 comments
Has their honeypot money dried up due to USAID cuts?
What is it about AI psychosis that makes leaders act like assholes?
I'm a technical co-founder. I definitely think that me and my team need to push ourselves to rethink how we work. Sometimes I have to push top-down, but I'd rather this happen in a measured way that's a combination of bottoms-up and top-down.
Leaders acting like assholes is not an AI phenomena
I'm a security guy. I know a lot of these privacy-minded folks.
They are not the types to accept enshittification and they are the types to read these news. As soon as they discover something else, they're off.
Good luck proton.
Proton has always been a sham. Their users may be privacy-minded, but not privacy-competent.
There's still a pipeline of them coming to Proton from Google and Microsoft, with about as little research as when they decide to leave Proton.
yep, Proton is in the business of trust as a service. Surprised that they think differently.
> an engineer asked for a few days to pentest new code before shipping it, and CEO Andy Yen answered that it was “bullshit and loser thinking”
Wow my first exposure to Andy Yen shouldn’t have been this one. I’m seeing a loser here and it’s not the engineer…
It's a really bad look, I saw that Proton issued some sort of half-baked apology. But nothing from Andy.
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I don't use any of Elon'd products. But why bring him up here?. Nobody was talking about Elon
I thought it was more, devs refused to use AI that caused the ceo to respond (in a bad way)
I agree, you cant just let AI take over critical projects, but to not use AI, is just letting the bad guys use AI against you. Its a tool, use the tool, make the tool work for you.