Lobbying is how businesses talk to government. And I get that that sounds nasty—and sometimes it is nasty—-but it’s necessary.
Most of us work for businesses and when a rule comes out that legitimately threatens your business, you want to be able to tell the government in realtime.
Remember the rule change to the amortization of software expenses, which inadvertently would have killed thousands of software companies? Well, a big push from businesses got the rule amended and eventually removed, which is better for everyone. That’s lobbying.
Many businesses and local governments hire people who specialize in that work due to the sheer volume (America has a lot of layers of government).
I understand why the profession has such a bad reputation. When we think of a “lobbyist” we think of Big Tobacco or Big Tax Prep Software…companies who are trying to preserve their position by paying off the right people. But for every one of those, there are a hundred companies trying to make sure the law doesn’t screw then over and a hundred local communities trying to convince their state capitol to fund their schools and parks and bridges.
I know this post is mainly about money in politics, but lobbying does go a lot farther than campaign contributions. Many lobbying groups are arranged around certain political groups, like environmentalism (Sierra Club), civil liberties (ACLU), or gun rights (NRA).
"Lobbying" is a generic term for influencing a politician, and it existed well before Citizens United. Hell, corporate influence in politics also existed long before Citizens United, too.
This is very lazy slopulism, but I'll take a stab at defending lobbying. Lobbying is a way for relevant stakeholders to make their issues known. Are there problems with lobbying? Absolutely, but it's not bribery.
Yes, and plenty do. Lobbying is a different thing to funding campaigns. It's just that many politicians are willing to listen more to lobbyists who also fund their campaign.
FYI, top PACs of the 2024 election (source: Wikipedia)
National Association of Realtors – $3,751,000
Blue Cross/Blue Shield [health insurance] – $2,705,050
American Crystal Sugar [agriculture] – $2,667,500
National Beer Wholesalers Association – $2,585,000
American Israel Public Affairs Committee – $2,572,500
Operating Engineers Union – $2,528,306
America's Credit Unions – $2,489,160
American Bankers Association – $2,249,580
Sheet Metal, Air, Rail & Transportation Union – $2,226,900
Trump 47 Committee – $2,220,530
Given this list, it’s really hard to be surprised about how America operates internally, and which businesses are sacrosanct. You could produce this list to the questions “why is real estate so expensive? Why don’t we have free healthcare? Why do we care so much about Israel? etc.”
I am a non-American from Poland and have no trouble understanding lobbying along with the distinction between lobbying and outright bribery or more systemic corruption.
Also, a lot of lobbying happens without money changing hands. Politicians need professional bodies and local communites for a variety of reasons. From staging campaign stops through having experts to maintain a semblance of merit all the way to filling goverment positions and actually exercising power once they win elections. Thus these various groups gain influence.
While the courts have allowed the influence of money in politics to go much too far, I doubt that the idea of rich people and businesses using their wealth to influence politicians is all that alien to non-Americans.
Also, bribery isn't really "super illegal" in America. Cases like McDonnell vs. US make it so that as long as you don't go "Thank you for the bag of money, which I hereby accept in exchange for granting you, in my official capacity, that government contract you wanted, which you would not have gotten otherwise," you're pretty much in the clear.
It's uniquely protected in the US, due to the constitution protecting freedom of speech. The supreme court has ruled that the government cannot stop anyone from sharing their views of candidates or campaigning on their behalf.
This is a very poorly researched article, as if lobbying was an American thing when it is something that happens all over the world especially in Europe.
That's 40 lobbyists for every EU parliament member.
Finally, lobbying is not a bad thing per se. Take the Chat Control issue that the EU has been pushing down the throat of its citizens for the last 5 years, the worst aspects of it have been watered down (slightly) because of citizens lobbying their MPs to defend their privacy rights.
Everyone can become a lobby and make their voices heard and that is how it's supposed to work.
I agree with the absurdity of it all, but also we're already so far beyond garden variety Citizens United-enabled SuperPAC bribery at this point and things just keep getting increasingly corrupt.
The President of the United States routinely pardons people of federal criminal charges in exchange for large sums of money. He does it right out in the open.
There are credible reasons to believe the administration will attempt to nullify the results of the upcoming midterm elections if they go as badly for the Republicans as it seems they will, and who knows what the hell will happen in 2028.
(IANALobbyist but I do work for a lobbying firm)
Lobbying is how businesses talk to government. And I get that that sounds nasty—and sometimes it is nasty—-but it’s necessary.
Most of us work for businesses and when a rule comes out that legitimately threatens your business, you want to be able to tell the government in realtime.
Remember the rule change to the amortization of software expenses, which inadvertently would have killed thousands of software companies? Well, a big push from businesses got the rule amended and eventually removed, which is better for everyone. That’s lobbying.
Many businesses and local governments hire people who specialize in that work due to the sheer volume (America has a lot of layers of government).
I understand why the profession has such a bad reputation. When we think of a “lobbyist” we think of Big Tobacco or Big Tax Prep Software…companies who are trying to preserve their position by paying off the right people. But for every one of those, there are a hundred companies trying to make sure the law doesn’t screw then over and a hundred local communities trying to convince their state capitol to fund their schools and parks and bridges.
I know this post is mainly about money in politics, but lobbying does go a lot farther than campaign contributions. Many lobbying groups are arranged around certain political groups, like environmentalism (Sierra Club), civil liberties (ACLU), or gun rights (NRA).
"Lobbying" is a generic term for influencing a politician, and it existed well before Citizens United. Hell, corporate influence in politics also existed long before Citizens United, too.
This is very lazy slopulism, but I'll take a stab at defending lobbying. Lobbying is a way for relevant stakeholders to make their issues known. Are there problems with lobbying? Absolutely, but it's not bribery.
Can't they make their issues known without paying the politician's campaign a bag of cash?
Right? Europe has lobbying without payments, as that's called what it is there: bribery.
Yes, and plenty do. Lobbying is a different thing to funding campaigns. It's just that many politicians are willing to listen more to lobbyists who also fund their campaign.
> It's just that many politicians are willing to listen more to lobbyists who also fund their campaign.
“It’s just that a bag of cash is more effective than simple persuasion”. Well, no shit. It’s called bribery.
Lobbying, in theory, isn’t bribery.
Lobbying, in practice, has turned into a form of bribery.
if by "relevant" you mean "rich", sure
now consider if that is the entire set of stakeholders
FYI, top PACs of the 2024 election (source: Wikipedia)
National Association of Realtors – $3,751,000
Blue Cross/Blue Shield [health insurance] – $2,705,050
American Crystal Sugar [agriculture] – $2,667,500
National Beer Wholesalers Association – $2,585,000
American Israel Public Affairs Committee – $2,572,500
Operating Engineers Union – $2,528,306
America's Credit Unions – $2,489,160
American Bankers Association – $2,249,580
Sheet Metal, Air, Rail & Transportation Union – $2,226,900
Trump 47 Committee – $2,220,530
Given this list, it’s really hard to be surprised about how America operates internally, and which businesses are sacrosanct. You could produce this list to the questions “why is real estate so expensive? Why don’t we have free healthcare? Why do we care so much about Israel? etc.”
>slopulism
TIL
>1, Populism characterized by low-quality (often gen AI) memes and conspiracy theories.
>2, Populism characterized by vague, disingenuous, or excessively idealistic claims.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/slopulism
I disagree with categorization though. Or now lower quality writing will be also branded as AI generated?
> Lobbying is a way for relevant stakeholders to make their issues known.
If only America was some kind of "representative" democracy where it was already the job of politicians to find this out.
I am a non-American from Poland and have no trouble understanding lobbying along with the distinction between lobbying and outright bribery or more systemic corruption.
Also, a lot of lobbying happens without money changing hands. Politicians need professional bodies and local communites for a variety of reasons. From staging campaign stops through having experts to maintain a semblance of merit all the way to filling goverment positions and actually exercising power once they win elections. Thus these various groups gain influence.
> through having experts to maintain a semblance of merit
Also, you have gradient from "actual honest expert advise" to "pushing own interest while claiming to be an expert".
While the courts have allowed the influence of money in politics to go much too far, I doubt that the idea of rich people and businesses using their wealth to influence politicians is all that alien to non-Americans.
Also, bribery isn't really "super illegal" in America. Cases like McDonnell vs. US make it so that as long as you don't go "Thank you for the bag of money, which I hereby accept in exchange for granting you, in my official capacity, that government contract you wanted, which you would not have gotten otherwise," you're pretty much in the clear.
Lobbying is hardly uniquely (US) american, right? At least in Europe, we have our fair share and I'm sure it exists in Africa and Asia as well.
Lots of big lobbying companies corrupting Australia, too.
Less "sophisticated" countries just tend cut out the lobbyist middleman and call it what it is - bribery.
It's uniquely protected in the US, due to the constitution protecting freedom of speech. The supreme court has ruled that the government cannot stop anyone from sharing their views of candidates or campaigning on their behalf.
Explicitly allowing payments with lobbying is more rare.
This framing is weird; this kind of lobbying through campaign/party donations happens almost anywhere that elections are a thing.
Often with strict spending limits. Which get violated, but at least it's not A-OK legally.
> Bribery is super illegal in America.
Not anymore! Just change the order!
Supreme Court Rules Bribes are Fine if You’re Paid Later: https://afj.org/article/supreme-court-rules-bribes-are-fine-...
I think in Canada lobbying is much more limited, so it's probably not due to democracy that we get lobbying.
Lobbying is definitely not an exclusive American thing.
Lobbying is also different to bribery even if some bribery is done under the label of lobbying.
Well you see, money = speech. And you propose to limit that??? Preposterous!
Vote with your wallet, they say. And how thy do!
How does lobbying work in Asia ?
Are the bribes better in other countries because they don't have a funny euphemism and carried out loosely in public?
In what democracy is the government and the opposition not completely owned by lobbyist money these days?
Everywhere where you have democracy?
Yes, I strictly interpreted "completely".
Does any American actually think this way about lobbying?
This is a very poorly researched article, as if lobbying was an American thing when it is something that happens all over the world especially in Europe.
Did you know there are 30000++ lobbyists in Brussels? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/08/lobbyists-euro...
That's 40 lobbyists for every EU parliament member.
Finally, lobbying is not a bad thing per se. Take the Chat Control issue that the EU has been pushing down the throat of its citizens for the last 5 years, the worst aspects of it have been watered down (slightly) because of citizens lobbying their MPs to defend their privacy rights.
Everyone can become a lobby and make their voices heard and that is how it's supposed to work.
I agree with the absurdity of it all, but also we're already so far beyond garden variety Citizens United-enabled SuperPAC bribery at this point and things just keep getting increasingly corrupt.
The President of the United States routinely pardons people of federal criminal charges in exchange for large sums of money. He does it right out in the open.
There are credible reasons to believe the administration will attempt to nullify the results of the upcoming midterm elections if they go as badly for the Republicans as it seems they will, and who knows what the hell will happen in 2028.
I am of the perspective that it's usually politician's extorting business people.
Kind of like, "If you don't bribe us, we shall pass laws that hurt you."
Business people just want to run their businesses.
Politicians however depend on strife. Which explains why, no matter the politician, nothing ever changes.
If you are to classify business people & politicians in an ecological sense.
- Business people would be symbiotes
- Politicians are parasites