Disconnecting it from the internet isn't enough, because it will store spying data forever until it gets a connection, and it will connect to any open WiFi. You have to disconnect it from the power, and then use a sledgehammer on the remains.
Then if you are lucky, the telescreen is in an unusual position. By sitting in the alcove, and keeping well back, you might be able to remain outside the range of the telescreen.
The TV looks for nearby Bluetooth and WiFi devices to identify when you're at home and who's at home. It also runs voice recognition to record your conversations as text, and uploads them. It also uploads the ID of what you're watching and when, though not the actual pixels, as far as anyone knows.
I guess this is unavoidable on today’s internet, but…reading a story that decries the (admittedly really bad) data gathering techniques of an advertiser, from a site that itself is plastered with adverts…I don’t know the right word here, but it feels a bit shit.
Although I’m glad this is getting the visibility it deserves. I hope this hurts LG where it matters and sends a signal to other manufacturers, but I doubt it.
My TVs (Samsung) are the only devices on my network that are locked down and quarantined. But I wonder if there will come a day when TVs contain cellular or satellite modems so you can’t block the telemetry.
> They also found where the microphone was software disabled via settings, it was STILL recording things but had the dB level so low that it looked like nothing but when amplified to +50dB later the conversations were actually still there.
Stuff like smart TVs always go in their own VLAN on my home network. Not because I don't trust the manufacturer, but I cannot be bothered to babysit some Android device on my LAN that I'll keep using years after end-of-support.
How is this legal? Can't we sue them or get the FTC against them? This seems like a ridiculous amount of spying, even if their TOS says so. That seems like exploiting complexity of TOS to let them spy on everyone.
I'm pretty sure that these TVs won't respect WIFI passwords and if you enter a wifi password in once, it will just remember it even when you clear it, and it will try to connect to the internet that way.
What about LG smart soundbars? I always kept the TV offline but the soundbar, if not connected to internet, exposes an unprotected hotspot that anyone can connect to and take control over the soundbar, forcing you to connect it to internet.
How do you know that not connecting it is sufficient to stop the spying?
There are a few large IoT-focused networks like Amazon Sidewalk where conceivably the smart TV could connect to them if you don't connect it to your home wifi. I believe many ISPs like Xfinity also runs shared public wifi from their routers - a tv could connect via your neighbor's ISP-provided router and you wouldn't have any idea.
Because it is a 'smart Tv', and it asks to get connected to the internet during setup?
That being said, I have an old LG Tv (pre-android, forget what they call the os), and I never connected it, opting instead to hook up a firetv stick .... (who knows what bad crap they might be up to btw).
But the point is, we are a minority, most people go the path of least resistance.
A pretty silly thing to ask. I can control my LG OLED TV from the YouTube and YouTube Music apps on my phone, as well as other apps, but the way that works is the apps hand off the stream parameters to the TV, they don't actually proxy the stream to the TV, which would have all kinds of drawbacks. The TV also comes out of the box or within 1 click of having the apps of popular services like Prime Video, Netflix, Apple TV+, Hulu, HBO/Max, Peacock, etc etc all of them they're just lightweight javascript applications.
The average person's house has a gateway/router/wifi thing from their ISP, a smart tv connected to the internet with microphones, and one of those iptv piracy boxes that's actually the source of all the residential proxy ips.
Convenience over all else is what 99% of people are doing.
Residential proxying seems a good trade for piracy to me. However, there's a chance it will attract attention of some authority, who (although proxying itself is legal) will see your piracy box and arrest you for piracy. However, this doesn't seem to happen in practice, perhaps because residential proxying is so common.
It is a screen. You plug an HDMI cable into your source device and another into the TV. Job done.
Are there really that many people technical enough to know what an HDMI cable is without also knowing all TVs are subsidized by spyware with no security protections?
Why would anyone connect a screen to the internet in the first place?
Like, if suddenly computer monitors started asking for wifi credentials would everyone just compulsively punch them in just to see ads and give the manufacturers lots of data just because?
I must be fundamentally disconnected from how consumers think about technology.
why would i want to have a second box to play my content when i can have it all in one. HDMI cables can only be so long before they get in the way. connecting the TV to a fileserver via wifi is awfully convenient. i also want to play stuff from my phone or my laptop (which is to far away to connect via cable)
so yeah, i totally want a wireless TV screen that is able to connect with all the devices in my house. but it's kind of difficult to achieve that without letting the TV access the internet. (most home routers do not support blocking internet access to specific devices)
Isn't that what a streaming stick is for? Who needs those complex TV remotes anyway. I've been running on Roku remotes for years and haven't missed anything. Even TiVo remotes are too complex.
But surely you know the TV will have ads, and spyware and screenshots you every few seconds to send to manufactures, and in some cases even has microphones involved?
The apps built into the screen literally meet the definition of trojans which any casual search on most brands would tell you.
All avoidable by plugging in an $20 dedicated source device for streaming or whatever.
They shouldn't though honestly. TVs should go back to basically being dumb monitors and the smart features should just come with a box. They can even sell the box as a bundle
Disconnecting it from the internet isn't enough, because it will store spying data forever until it gets a connection, and it will connect to any open WiFi. You have to disconnect it from the power, and then use a sledgehammer on the remains.
>and it will connect to any open WiFi
I've seen this claim made over and over again for various smart TVs, but so far I haven't seen any concrete evidence of this, only random speculation.
I'd rather open it up and remove/destroy just the network card.
(I don't have to do so though because my tv is 20 years old.)
What if the network isn't on a separate card?
Then if you are lucky, the telescreen is in an unusual position. By sitting in the alcove, and keeping well back, you might be able to remain outside the range of the telescreen.
That'd be the time to grab your hammer, baseball bat, or shotgun.
Block it on your router.
If that happened would any of that data get tied back to you? If you haven't created any accounts or signed into anything.
The TV looks for nearby Bluetooth and WiFi devices to identify when you're at home and who's at home. It also runs voice recognition to record your conversations as text, and uploads them. It also uploads the ID of what you're watching and when, though not the actual pixels, as far as anyone knows.
They can use data gathered from your network. Perhaps you have some other connected device with an account they can match to. Or a phone.
I guess this is unavoidable on today’s internet, but…reading a story that decries the (admittedly really bad) data gathering techniques of an advertiser, from a site that itself is plastered with adverts…I don’t know the right word here, but it feels a bit shit.
Although I’m glad this is getting the visibility it deserves. I hope this hurts LG where it matters and sends a signal to other manufacturers, but I doubt it.
My TVs (Samsung) are the only devices on my network that are locked down and quarantined. But I wonder if there will come a day when TVs contain cellular or satellite modems so you can’t block the telemetry.
Some brands have TVs share Wi-Fi with each other, so even if you don't connect it to Wi-Fi, your neighbour's TV will silently share with yours.
Which? All I've seen over the years is people repeating the same rumor.
> a day when TVs contain cellular or satellite modems so you can’t block the telemetry
finally my startup of faraday-cage rooms will boom /j
> They also found where the microphone was software disabled via settings, it was STILL recording things but had the dB level so low that it looked like nothing but when amplified to +50dB later the conversations were actually still there.
Stuff like smart TVs always go in their own VLAN on my home network. Not because I don't trust the manufacturer, but I cannot be bothered to babysit some Android device on my LAN that I'll keep using years after end-of-support.
How is this legal? Can't we sue them or get the FTC against them? This seems like a ridiculous amount of spying, even if their TOS says so. That seems like exploiting complexity of TOS to let them spy on everyone.
I'm pretty sure that these TVs won't respect WIFI passwords and if you enter a wifi password in once, it will just remember it even when you clear it, and it will try to connect to the internet that way.
FTC? They might be doing it FOR the FTC.
What about LG smart soundbars? I always kept the TV offline but the soundbar, if not connected to internet, exposes an unprotected hotspot that anyone can connect to and take control over the soundbar, forcing you to connect it to internet.
Dupe of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49592375
Reminder: you can connect it to your network, but block it from the internet at the router. That way you can still use Airplay/Chromecast.
I have an LG. Great OLED panel. It's never seen the internet.
Sceptre dumb TV bros still winning
Why would you ever connect a TV to the internet in the first place?
Most non-techie people I know have a smart TV without an external streaming box like an Apple TV, Nvidia Shield, Roku, etc.
How do you know that not connecting it is sufficient to stop the spying?
There are a few large IoT-focused networks like Amazon Sidewalk where conceivably the smart TV could connect to them if you don't connect it to your home wifi. I believe many ISPs like Xfinity also runs shared public wifi from their routers - a tv could connect via your neighbor's ISP-provided router and you wouldn't have any idea.
Because it is a 'smart Tv', and it asks to get connected to the internet during setup?
That being said, I have an old LG Tv (pre-android, forget what they call the os), and I never connected it, opting instead to hook up a firetv stick .... (who knows what bad crap they might be up to btw).
But the point is, we are a minority, most people go the path of least resistance.
Did you mean pre-webOS? As far as I know LG TVs have never run Android.
Ever heard of netflix, youtube, disney+, paramount, hulu, etc?
1. Onboarding tells you to
2. Convenience
3. Cheaper than buying an Apple TV et al
A pretty silly thing to ask. I can control my LG OLED TV from the YouTube and YouTube Music apps on my phone, as well as other apps, but the way that works is the apps hand off the stream parameters to the TV, they don't actually proxy the stream to the TV, which would have all kinds of drawbacks. The TV also comes out of the box or within 1 click of having the apps of popular services like Prime Video, Netflix, Apple TV+, Hulu, HBO/Max, Peacock, etc etc all of them they're just lightweight javascript applications.
The average person's house has a gateway/router/wifi thing from their ISP, a smart tv connected to the internet with microphones, and one of those iptv piracy boxes that's actually the source of all the residential proxy ips.
Convenience over all else is what 99% of people are doing.
Residential proxying seems a good trade for piracy to me. However, there's a chance it will attract attention of some authority, who (although proxying itself is legal) will see your piracy box and arrest you for piracy. However, this doesn't seem to happen in practice, perhaps because residential proxying is so common.
Because not everyone wants to buy a tv and a Roku or similar device.
It is a screen. You plug an HDMI cable into your source device and another into the TV. Job done.
Are there really that many people technical enough to know what an HDMI cable is without also knowing all TVs are subsidized by spyware with no security protections?
Why would anyone connect a screen to the internet in the first place?
Like, if suddenly computer monitors started asking for wifi credentials would everyone just compulsively punch them in just to see ads and give the manufacturers lots of data just because?
I must be fundamentally disconnected from how consumers think about technology.
why would i want to have a second box to play my content when i can have it all in one. HDMI cables can only be so long before they get in the way. connecting the TV to a fileserver via wifi is awfully convenient. i also want to play stuff from my phone or my laptop (which is to far away to connect via cable)
so yeah, i totally want a wireless TV screen that is able to connect with all the devices in my house. but it's kind of difficult to achieve that without letting the TV access the internet. (most home routers do not support blocking internet access to specific devices)
TVs have streaming services, those need internet to function.
What else does anyone (average consumer) use their TV for? I don’t want a separate device to plug in and remote just to stream things.
Isn't that what a streaming stick is for? Who needs those complex TV remotes anyway. I've been running on Roku remotes for years and haven't missed anything. Even TiVo remotes are too complex.
But surely you know the TV will have ads, and spyware and screenshots you every few seconds to send to manufactures, and in some cases even has microphones involved?
The apps built into the screen literally meet the definition of trojans which any casual search on most brands would tell you.
All avoidable by plugging in an $20 dedicated source device for streaming or whatever.
Is saving the $20 really worth it?
They shouldn't though honestly. TVs should go back to basically being dumb monitors and the smart features should just come with a box. They can even sell the box as a bundle
All TVs offer extra functionality like connecting to Netflix, Disney+, HBO etc. It obviates the need for an extra device like Roku or Apple TV.
So most consumers are willing to knowingly give up privacy, security, and freedom just to save 20 bucks on a hdmi streaming device?
I have no words for how depressing that is.
Then again most consumers use Bytedance, Meta, Google, and Apple products so I guess I should not be too surprised.
> Why would anyone technical ever connect a TV to the internet in the first place?
You must be...
> I must be fundamentally disconnected from how consumers think about technology.'
Right.