Devtools must be open source

44 points | by bryanmikaelian an hour ago

9 comments

  • simonw 12 minutes ago

    One of the arguments for open source software for end-users has always been the freedom to examine and modify how that software works.

    The reality for most people - even expert programmers - has been that the freedom is more about being able to lean on other people to do that. Most people can't justify the time commitment needed to read and then modify the code for tools they use very often.

    I think LLMs have changed that equation in a way that makes the original dream much more feasible.

    Several times a day I'll prompt regular Claude chat to "Clone x/y from GitHub and tell me how Z works".

    Getting software to compile in order to start hacking on it used to be enough friction that I often wouldn't bother. Now I treat that as a zero time investment challenge: tell Codex or Claude Code to checkout and build X and then come back ten minutes later and see how it got on.

    I'm not habitually modifying the software I use yet, but I can see a path to that which didn't exist a year or so ago.

      imrehg 3 minutes ago

      I have sent countless small bug fixes even before, to tools that I use that I could dig into when something was off... No big heavy lifting, but plenty of "tinker on your tools" stuff. And I don't think what I did was that special, so maybe the experiences are different?

      The current LLM-driven stuff seems to break down the expectations, and now there are a lot of places which just ignore anything I send in (the same tinkers as before), generally, for a while. Though there are some tools that picked up the pace and actually react faster (so YMMV here too).

      But there are few things more frustrating as being half-way. Case to point is LM Studio. It's closed source, has bugs (duh!), and there's at least a GitHub issue tracker to report the bugs -- but then by and large nothing happens to those reported things. It's almost worse than not having an issue tracker (then I could justify never to really touch LM Studio again, this way I keep hoping against hope that reports will turn into fixes and thus I keep using and keep reporting...)

  • pbjerkeseth 2 minutes ago

    So, I'm a subscriber/user of exe.dev but even so I was a bit disappointed when the meat.dev tool linked in the article had no screenshots/meaningful docs. So I installed it and was bummed to see it only supported openAI and exe.dev llm integration by default. "You can just fork" - yeah I know, so take it with a grain of salt.

    That aside aside, I agree. Since reading this article yesterday I've probably been overthinking an MIT from AGPL license switch for my own project Ouijit (shill time: https://ouijit.com). Its feels a little counterintuitive since AGPL encourages more open source downstream, but at the same time if I have solved some problem other agent harness devs are curious about, I just want them to take the solution without worrying about paying it back/forward.

  • kelnos 12 minutes ago

    I agree that devtools should be open source, but... I very much disagree with the premise that no tools should have config files, options, or plugin systems, and instead when you want to change something like your text editor's font size, you should have an LLM download the code, change the hard-coded value, and rebuild it.

    That's just so inefficient and wasteful. Assuming a world in which LLMs do most of the coding work, do we want to burn electricity having the LLM build an options dialog or config file parser once, or do we want to burn electricity millions of times as users want to change any little thing about the software they use?

    I really hope what you should expect is my answer to that question isn't controversial.

    Having an LLM do bespoke customizations that are unlikely to be interesting to other people? Great, sure. But adding a generally-useful feature to a piece of software, but not caring to try to upstream it? Lame. Lame, lame, lame.

      herrkanin 3 minutes ago

      Without any evidence to back it up, my hope is that your criticism in a decade will be the equivalent to "Everybody having a mainframe at home? Do we want to waste a whole room in each and every house just for that?".

      tajd 4 minutes ago

      I completely agree - we've seen that tools with plugins are really scalable and then allow the better plugins to be folded back into the main tool where they become popular. I've taken that approach with my own dev tools that I've created.

  • doc_ick 16 minutes ago

    I disagree. As if a tool is customized via agents and something goes wrong, it should be the users issue to fix it. Say I want to customize a bank app (or sca tool) to use a nickname instead of my name, if it breaks then who fixes it?

      anygivnthursday 2 minutes ago

      It does not even have to break, you and your LLM can introduce subtle bugs or vulnerabilities to a codebase you are not familiar with and there is a userbase of 1 person to catch this.

  • trjordan 5 minutes ago

    I like the idea of devtools being open source. I also like them to work, and that's what I value more that philosophical purity.

    Take his side project, Meat. I've been chewing on this problem for a while. It's a real problem right now: it sucks to read all this LLM-generated code. It's worthwhile to have an LLM summarize it for you.

    The problem with that is this particular problem resists vibe coding. I've talked to a bunch of people who have tried to solve it on the side, and it's all sort of ... ok, but still unsolved.

    - As mentioned, it takes a while to run. You can modify your other tools, as described, to smuggle the latency.

    - LLMs don't know what you care about, so you have to maintain a list of things that you do care about, which is ever evolving. If you don't give it that, it produces slop.

    - If you miss something, it hurts. Another layer of swiss-cheese AI doesn't feel right. If you trust the AI, just ask Claude to summarize its work!

    - The summaries feel shareable, but the author of the PR is actually the most tolerate of slop about a PR. Your reviewers definitely don't want to read the output of a vibe-coded tool talking about 60% of your PR. They could ask their own Claude!

    So, we're building a version (https://tern.sh), and it's not open source, because we want it to be shareable and hosted and support teams -- all that stuff that makes it work. At the end of the day, I'm not here to maintain my tools. I'm here to use my tools to do the job.