Wero is such a valuable asset for Europe and couldn't have come at a better time.
It's built on the excellent SEPA system, which standardized bank transfers and "Lastschrift" in Europe. SEPA itself got a huge upgrade last year with mandatory instant transfers that cannot cost more than standard transfers between European checking accounts.
Both of those allowed Wero to happen as a final abstract top layer, meaning: the UX of sending money to an email address with the security and convenience of bank transfers. And everything is built collaboratively on top of European banking infrastructure.
No account necessary and no private american conglomerates can delete that account.
And before some says: "Well, now the government controls everything!": They already did, since... Ever. Now its one less entity with that access and one that can be (hopefully) controlled and changed by a majority.
I need to use this thread to mention the Polish payment system Blik. It is one of the most convenient payment systems out there - you generate an ephemeral 6-digit code in your banking app, copy it to the vendor, confirm, done. Works P2P with phone numbers, too.
Interestingly, it would be the perfect system for payments using AI agents - the agent tries to pay, asks user to provide 6-digit code, submits payment request. User confirms via banking app. Done.
I recently bought something from fahrrad.de and was surprised to see Wero as an payment option. I don't know what I expected, but scanning the QR code and acknowledging the payment in my banking app worked without any issues.
The whole process had a very "snappy" feeling without waiting for any of the usual spinners and redirects. So... thumbs up, I guess?
Wero shows that marketing is everything. It's just regular bank transactions with a much larger fee. We could have had EPC QR codes and similar completely free technologies instead.
Usually the fee is on merchant (and it's few % depending on region regulations etc.)
Payment providers such as Wero are doing direct bank transfer, which is usually fee-less, but then they can afford to put a on-merchant fee that's much lower than what credit card companies are charging.
Thus the model is win-win-win: Consumer doesn't pay more, Merchant pays less, and Wero gets their share.
Free for individuals, but paid if you're the business it seems from what I've found? If that's the case, it seems to be the same as a card in the US and I wouldn't be surprised if some businesses try to pass it on like they do with cards.
I mean, that was always possible and many offered that. Wero offers the PayPal style integrated flow, QR code scanning from your banking app is slightly higher friction
I'd like the EU to enforce a payment-system agnostic checkout for webshops, which gives me the same payment options everywhere and which also adds a layer of privacy.
God I wish the US had a digital payment system that we could all basically agree on. Having Apple Pay vs Google Pay vs Zelle vs Paypal vs Venmo vs all the others is annoying as hell.
> The system was conceived by the Dutch banks ABN Amro, ING Bank, Postbank N.V. and Rabobank, to develop a single system for online payments that could be used by all banks.
Currently owned by EPI:
> The European Payments Initiative (EPI) is a unified digital payment service launched in 2020 and backed by sixteen founding European banks and payment service providers.
If European retailers manage to link Wero payments to loyalty schemes, then everyone will benefit and this could eventually become something. Still, no thread to legacy credit card rails (Mastercard, Visa) for many years. The industry doesn’t expect hockey stick growth AFAIK
This type of thing (scan QR code) is how basically all payments were done when I was recently in China, via wechat or alipay (either you show your QR code for big shops, or scan for small shops / vendors).
I found it superior to other systems I've used in basically every way. Particularly for small market stalls -- I scan their QR code, I enter how much I want to send them. They never get my details, I don't have to trust they didn't fat-finger the price. It also makes it amazingly easy to send money to friends, just scan their code and send them their share of dinner.
It has massive perks, especially in regions where the transaction fee or exchange fee scams run.
(Basically they have a reasonable price showing and when you pay with a credit card you see your banks charges you a huge amount. It can be as simple as in Mexico $ is used for pesos so if the merchant actually charges you USD that's 20x or so rip off).
But... This isn't mutually exclusive, why can't I set a price on my smartphone when I pay by contactless?
The other benefit is that there QR codes are bank transfers. Which have substantially less recourse and less rights for the consumer. Probably doesn't matter for a $10 sandwich but still significant.
I would claim the main cause why it is more complicated is having VAT and KYC/AML requirements. Transactions can be much easier if you ignore the VAT requirement.
I get that this is a good thing and long overdue - but the excitement here just underscores for me how expectations in Europe for Europe doing anything truly cutting edge are low.
I tend to prefer Bizum over my card, as my newfangled debit card has a CVV code that changes every 10 minutes, so I can no longer just autofill the card with a password manager, I MUST open the bank app to get the CVV code.
With Bizum I don't need that, input my phone number, approve the dialogue in the bank app, then for future purchases it's automatically approved. That no fees goes to American companies is just the cherry on top.
(Decathlon Spain also offers Bizum payments, FWIW)
In Norway we have a thing similar to Bizum, called Vipps. I.e. a payment method specialized for sending small person-to-person payments, for example useful when buying something second hand in person from another person, or when splitting a restaurant bill, or paying someone for gas when you rode in their car with them, etc etc.
Vipps is also usable as payment method in several online stores here, just like the above mentioned that Bizum can be used for Amazon Spain. I often use Vipps as payment method when it is available in online stores. It’s quick and convenient, and doesn’t involve giving my card details to a third party payment provider.
Aside from my Norwegian bank card and the Vipps that is connected to the same bank account, I also have Revolut, which supports disposable single-use virtual cards which is an excellent idea in theory and I’ve used that a few times too, but I have had too many cases of trying to pay with Revolut disposable single-use virtual cards and it not working so that what should’ve been a great way to avoid giving my card details to all kinds of third parties instead becomes a hassle where I first try disposable and it’s not going through and then I have to use my long-term multi-use card details to pay anyway.
With Vipps I have not had much trouble. There was a time or two such as for example the other day where I paid for something on Finn (similar to Wallapop in Spain) with Vipps and Finn said there was an error and I tried again and Finn still said it errored. But I just left it like that and it resolved itself. Next day when I logged into Finn again, the purchase had completed and in Vipps one of the two pending attempted payments went through and the other one was reverted as it should, without me having had to reach out to neither Finn nor Vipps myself.
It sounds like a coupon website installing malware to me. But... names are just names. When adoption gets large enough, every name becomes unimportant I guess.
iShares, iDeal, WhatsApp: the Millenial trinity of European essentials :D
I agree it's always fast and convenient! It doesn't have the buyer protection you get with a credit card (it debits from your account immediately), but for most purchases that is fine.
Wero is such a valuable asset for Europe and couldn't have come at a better time.
It's built on the excellent SEPA system, which standardized bank transfers and "Lastschrift" in Europe. SEPA itself got a huge upgrade last year with mandatory instant transfers that cannot cost more than standard transfers between European checking accounts.
Both of those allowed Wero to happen as a final abstract top layer, meaning: the UX of sending money to an email address with the security and convenience of bank transfers. And everything is built collaboratively on top of European banking infrastructure.
No account necessary and no private american conglomerates can delete that account.
And before some says: "Well, now the government controls everything!": They already did, since... Ever. Now its one less entity with that access and one that can be (hopefully) controlled and changed by a majority.
I frequently run into failed SEPA transfers. At least three per month out of ~200. So it could use some more stability for my use case.
In all fairness, I also have a couple of VISA payments that fail every month.
I need to use this thread to mention the Polish payment system Blik. It is one of the most convenient payment systems out there - you generate an ephemeral 6-digit code in your banking app, copy it to the vendor, confirm, done. Works P2P with phone numbers, too.
Interestingly, it would be the perfect system for payments using AI agents - the agent tries to pay, asks user to provide 6-digit code, submits payment request. User confirms via banking app. Done.
I recently bought something from fahrrad.de and was surprised to see Wero as an payment option. I don't know what I expected, but scanning the QR code and acknowledging the payment in my banking app worked without any issues. The whole process had a very "snappy" feeling without waiting for any of the usual spinners and redirects. So... thumbs up, I guess?
Wero shows that marketing is everything. It's just regular bank transactions with a much larger fee. We could have had EPC QR codes and similar completely free technologies instead.
Wero’s website says they don’t charge fees
So who is charging the fees?
They most likely don't charge fees on consumer.
Usually the fee is on merchant (and it's few % depending on region regulations etc.) Payment providers such as Wero are doing direct bank transfer, which is usually fee-less, but then they can afford to put a on-merchant fee that's much lower than what credit card companies are charging.
Thus the model is win-win-win: Consumer doesn't pay more, Merchant pays less, and Wero gets their share.
Card fee in EU is maximum 0.2% for debit and 0.3% for credit.
Free for individuals, but paid if you're the business it seems from what I've found? If that's the case, it seems to be the same as a card in the US and I wouldn't be surprised if some businesses try to pass it on like they do with cards.
[0] https://www.mollie.com/growth/wero-payment-guide#:~:text=How...
[1] https://www.bnpparibasfortis.be/en/public/faq/how-much-does-...
The payment service provider (like Stripe or Adyen).
I mean, that was always possible and many offered that. Wero offers the PayPal style integrated flow, QR code scanning from your banking app is slightly higher friction
I'd like the EU to enforce a payment-system agnostic checkout for webshops, which gives me the same payment options everywhere and which also adds a layer of privacy.
That's like, literally impossible? "Hey I just invented ameliuspay, your shop doesn't support it, go directly to jail"
> competition in digital payments
What competition? Here in the Netherlands, iDeal (which is already renamed to Wero) has almost no competition. Perhaps PayPal a few percent
In Germany PayPal is pretty huge
Visa
MasterCard
I always use Paypal because they have buyers protection, and this has already saved me countless of times.
Would like to see if this is also offered in the Wero ecosystem?
God I wish the US had a digital payment system that we could all basically agree on. Having Apple Pay vs Google Pay vs Zelle vs Paypal vs Venmo vs all the others is annoying as hell.
It is one of these instances where « let the market decide » is not necessarily the best option on the long run.
The market wants to take a cut per transaction, perpetually. At a high profit margin.
This is one where not the market but a country/group of countries need to rollout their own public payments so fees are minimal to zero.
Ideal was a result of free market banking though.
> The system was conceived by the Dutch banks ABN Amro, ING Bank, Postbank N.V. and Rabobank, to develop a single system for online payments that could be used by all banks.
Currently owned by EPI:
> The European Payments Initiative (EPI) is a unified digital payment service launched in 2020 and backed by sixteen founding European banks and payment service providers.
If European retailers manage to link Wero payments to loyalty schemes, then everyone will benefit and this could eventually become something. Still, no thread to legacy credit card rails (Mastercard, Visa) for many years. The industry doesn’t expect hockey stick growth AFAIK
This type of thing (scan QR code) is how basically all payments were done when I was recently in China, via wechat or alipay (either you show your QR code for big shops, or scan for small shops / vendors).
I found it superior to other systems I've used in basically every way. Particularly for small market stalls -- I scan their QR code, I enter how much I want to send them. They never get my details, I don't have to trust they didn't fat-finger the price. It also makes it amazingly easy to send money to friends, just scan their code and send them their share of dinner.
It has massive perks, especially in regions where the transaction fee or exchange fee scams run.
(Basically they have a reasonable price showing and when you pay with a credit card you see your banks charges you a huge amount. It can be as simple as in Mexico $ is used for pesos so if the merchant actually charges you USD that's 20x or so rip off).
But... This isn't mutually exclusive, why can't I set a price on my smartphone when I pay by contactless?
The other benefit is that there QR codes are bank transfers. Which have substantially less recourse and less rights for the consumer. Probably doesn't matter for a $10 sandwich but still significant.
I would claim the main cause why it is more complicated is having VAT and KYC/AML requirements. Transactions can be much easier if you ignore the VAT requirement.
To me NFC is superior. It checks all the boxes you mentioned plus quicker / last steps
Why is this news? In the Netherlands the ideal system is already replaced by Wero ? What am I missing.
I get that this is a good thing and long overdue - but the excitement here just underscores for me how expectations in Europe for Europe doing anything truly cutting edge are low.
In Spain we can pay using Bizum on many websites, including Amazon.
For Amazon Spain I use my debit card. Is there an upside to using Bizum?
I tend to prefer Bizum over my card, as my newfangled debit card has a CVV code that changes every 10 minutes, so I can no longer just autofill the card with a password manager, I MUST open the bank app to get the CVV code.
With Bizum I don't need that, input my phone number, approve the dialogue in the bank app, then for future purchases it's automatically approved. That no fees goes to American companies is just the cherry on top.
(Decathlon Spain also offers Bizum payments, FWIW)
In Norway we have a thing similar to Bizum, called Vipps. I.e. a payment method specialized for sending small person-to-person payments, for example useful when buying something second hand in person from another person, or when splitting a restaurant bill, or paying someone for gas when you rode in their car with them, etc etc.
Vipps is also usable as payment method in several online stores here, just like the above mentioned that Bizum can be used for Amazon Spain. I often use Vipps as payment method when it is available in online stores. It’s quick and convenient, and doesn’t involve giving my card details to a third party payment provider.
Aside from my Norwegian bank card and the Vipps that is connected to the same bank account, I also have Revolut, which supports disposable single-use virtual cards which is an excellent idea in theory and I’ve used that a few times too, but I have had too many cases of trying to pay with Revolut disposable single-use virtual cards and it not working so that what should’ve been a great way to avoid giving my card details to all kinds of third parties instead becomes a hassle where I first try disposable and it’s not going through and then I have to use my long-term multi-use card details to pay anyway.
With Vipps I have not had much trouble. There was a time or two such as for example the other day where I paid for something on Finn (similar to Wallapop in Spain) with Vipps and Finn said there was an error and I tried again and Finn still said it errored. But I just left it like that and it resolved itself. Next day when I logged into Finn again, the purchase had completed and in Vipps one of the two pending attempted payments went through and the other one was reverted as it should, without me having had to reach out to neither Finn nor Vipps myself.
Related:
Lidl Introduces the European Payment Method Wero in Germany
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49060205
Presse release: https://einblicke.decathlon.de/presse/pressekit/digitale-inn...
iDeal is amazing and it's great it's coming to the rest of Europe, even if they gave it a worse name.
Here in the Benelux it's the go-to payment option for ecommerce.
I think this will be a much bigger threat to Visa and Mastercard than the oft-promised digital Euro.
> I think this will be a much bigger threat to Visa and Mastercard than the oft-promised digital Euro.
Not just the American card networks but also a threat to the US Dollar as the reserve currency and the power it gives to the USA
Hence why USA is unhappy with Brazil over their Pix system
Afaik the system is being consolidated
https://epicompany.eu/media-insights/ideal-to-phase-into-wer...
« iDEAL will begin rebranding to iDEAL | Wero in 2026 »
I don't think the name is that bad. iDeal sounds very dated to me as a native English speaker.
It sounds like a coupon website installing malware to me. But... names are just names. When adoption gets large enough, every name becomes unimportant I guess.
iShares, iDeal, WhatsApp: the Millenial trinity of European essentials :D
How would you even pronounce wero as a native English speaker?
We - ro? Wer-o?
At least iDeal was unambiguous.
I heard the gimmick was euro (you-ro) -- wero (we-ro). Which leaves ayero and dayro.
> I think this will be a much bigger threat to Visa and Mastercard than the oft-promised digital Euro
Wasn't the digital Euro specifically crippled due to banks lobbying against it to promote Wero instead?
I actually like Wero a lot as a name, sound like virtual euro to me.
I agree it's always fast and convenient! It doesn't have the buyer protection you get with a credit card (it debits from your account immediately), but for most purchases that is fine.
Well I guess I have good news for you (and bad news for Dutch merchants), because Wero does offer the ability to dispute.