About 10 years ago, when it was less well-known, you could find better raw leaf powder and it was helping people get off actual opiates.
IIRC there's an effect where the actual chemicals get stronger for older leaves. The bigger market has caused the harvest period to shorten, making the powder worse quality, and creating room for the concentrated extracts and stuff like 7-Oh.
Tragedy of the commons I guess. I knew people who started taking way too much, but also people who were able to use it responsibly. People say "let doctors prescribe", but that ignores how in order for that to happen, a pharma company will need something they can patent, pay for the years of testing, get sole control over it for a period, and years later a generic can come about. All when you can dry a leaf and use it as-is. There should be room for plants to be consumed. Screw it, enjoy poppy, cannabis, kratom, tobacco, etc.
It probably shouldn't be sold in gas stations but it probably also shouldn't be outright banned, as we'll just get new, more dangerous analogues.
Theres a guy Grant Harding on YT etc. who sends gas station pills for testing and some of the things he finds are scary. Seriously addictive drugs being sold OTC with no meaningful consumer warning or guardrails
Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances in existence and it is sold everywhere. If governments actually cared about addiction risk, a whole lot of things would have to disappear from normal stores.
Nicotine is far more regulated and generally won’t lead you to pass out behind the wheel of a car or drown in a hot tub. You can’t even smoke in the vicinity of many buildings, but kratom? It’s basically an unregulated opiod that anyone over 18 can get and use wherever, whenever, with little to no control over what’s actually in it because it’s not food, medicine, etc.
Actually reasonable decision from the DEA under RFK. Scheduling concentrated/semi-synthetic kratom products while leaving the weaker leaf-based products alone is a good compromise to reduce harm without criminalizing kratom (which has beneficial uses for opioid recovery and maintenance therapy) in general.
It's kind of amazing that this took so long. On the other hand, this is just chapter 3025223 of the failed war on drugs and we can be confident that people will find something worse as an alternative.
I’m not fully cognizant of the interaction between FDA and DEA, but I would’ve thought that following FDA’s announcement last year, kratom had already been outlawed.
This is the only sane and reasonable thing RFK has done while in office, but also possibly ever. You can't ignore that he's a completely insane dug addict.
Feel Free (and similar) extracts like this are especially onerous. It's no longer Kratom powder that takes a lot of effort to get into trouble with.
These extracts are not very well studied, and may be stronger than many Schedule II opioids. Especially for certain brain chemistries.
In no world should Feel Free execs not be in prison at this point. They know precisely what they are doing, and their marketing is especially nasty since they market it towards addicts as a safe alchohol alternative.
Kratom powders of 15 years ago can be defended in many ways. These extracts have absolutely no leg to stand on. They are an end-around opioid scheduling.
It’s wild that this stuff has remained unregulated for so long. Usually that can be attributed to the demographics (perceived or real) of the users though.
I know very little of this but it seems like not all things kratom are affected.
> This temporary scheduling action does not apply to botanical kratom products that contain naturally occurring 7-OH below the specified threshold. Instead, it targets synthesized products and those containing elevated concentrations of 7-OH as outlined in the temporary scheduling order. DEA believes these substances pose an imminent threat to public safety given their effects are highly unpredictable.
Everything in moderation. I know a few successful adults who have tried crack. Personally, I'd never want to try it but people can do what they want. I've been around people high on powder cocaine a few times and they were incredibly annoying.
This is the proper response. I'm sure heroin feels really really really good. The amount of addicts in this thread defending their addiction is surprising.
I have never used kratom, and I don't plan on it. But automatically assuming anyone who isn't hellbent against it is just a junkie "defending their addiction" is pretty close minded lol.
It's a not-opioid that just plays with the opiate receptors in your brain and can be purchased in a concentrated form at your nearest gas station in a lot of US States.
This is different. There’s the plant. Contains about 1.5% mitragynine.
Then there were purified extracts of the active alkaloids in the plant. Started around 30% mitragynine years ago now in the 85% range.
Then there were synthetic derivatives of mitragynine (7oh, mgm-15, etc.). These are much more fun/addictive and surprisingly safe. Almost all “overdoses” involved a mix of alcohol or other drugs. Much safer than fentanyl or traditional opioids because it doesn’t meaningfully trigger respiratory depression leading to asphyxiation. Unfortunately, they’re also addictive. The harm level, imho, was somewhere around alcohol or nicotine.
I used to order it online in like 2005. Crude extracts were available maybe since 2007. The plant almost got banned several years ago. Then over the last few years all these extracts and derivatives have been coming out. MGM-15 is stronger than heroin from what I've heard. Strongest stuff I ever tried was a mitragynine gummy and it felt like hydrocodone. That one gummy had the effects of what I used to get from a couple cups of tea. Good stuff but not risking addiction to try it again. Made me nauseous too
Kratom is such an interesting drug.
About 10 years ago, when it was less well-known, you could find better raw leaf powder and it was helping people get off actual opiates.
IIRC there's an effect where the actual chemicals get stronger for older leaves. The bigger market has caused the harvest period to shorten, making the powder worse quality, and creating room for the concentrated extracts and stuff like 7-Oh.
Tragedy of the commons I guess. I knew people who started taking way too much, but also people who were able to use it responsibly. People say "let doctors prescribe", but that ignores how in order for that to happen, a pharma company will need something they can patent, pay for the years of testing, get sole control over it for a period, and years later a generic can come about. All when you can dry a leaf and use it as-is. There should be room for plants to be consumed. Screw it, enjoy poppy, cannabis, kratom, tobacco, etc.
It probably shouldn't be sold in gas stations but it probably also shouldn't be outright banned, as we'll just get new, more dangerous analogues.
Theres a guy Grant Harding on YT etc. who sends gas station pills for testing and some of the things he finds are scary. Seriously addictive drugs being sold OTC with no meaningful consumer warning or guardrails
>Seriously addictive drugs being sold OTC
Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances in existence and it is sold everywhere. If governments actually cared about addiction risk, a whole lot of things would have to disappear from normal stores.
So is caffeine.
Nicotine is far more regulated and generally won’t lead you to pass out behind the wheel of a car or drown in a hot tub. You can’t even smoke in the vicinity of many buildings, but kratom? It’s basically an unregulated opiod that anyone over 18 can get and use wherever, whenever, with little to no control over what’s actually in it because it’s not food, medicine, etc.
So are most OTC drugs. Doesn't change the fact that you can get them everywhere. And long term nicotine use causes dependence similar to heroin.
Actually reasonable decision from the DEA under RFK. Scheduling concentrated/semi-synthetic kratom products while leaving the weaker leaf-based products alone is a good compromise to reduce harm without criminalizing kratom (which has beneficial uses for opioid recovery and maintenance therapy) in general.
If it actually has beneficial uses let a doctor prescribe it. Kratom is extremely addictive and should be illegal yesterday.
The doctors will prescribe methadone or suboxone instead most likely, both of which are *massively* more powerful and addictive than kratom.
It's kind of amazing that this took so long. On the other hand, this is just chapter 3025223 of the failed war on drugs and we can be confident that people will find something worse as an alternative.
aka "gas station heroin"
Gas stations have the best drugs
Whereas the sushi is hit or miss.
Kratom has been beneficial for me. Extracts can go but the leaf should stay.
Last year, the FDA had already said that if kratom is added to food, it is considered adulteration of food. It also cannot be a dietary supplement.
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/public-health-focus/fda-and-...
I’m not fully cognizant of the interaction between FDA and DEA, but I would’ve thought that following FDA’s announcement last year, kratom had already been outlawed.
> I would’ve thought that following FDA’s announcement last year, kratom had already been outlawed.
The FDA can say you can't sell it as a supplement or food. But they can't stop you from possessing it or selling it as a chemical.
When the DEA schedules it, it is illegal to possess or sell in any capacity.
This is the only sane and reasonable thing RFK has done while in office, but also possibly ever. You can't ignore that he's a completely insane dug addict.
Chopping the dick off of a dead raccoon on the side of the road with your wife and kids in the car is pretty low. Even for an elected official..
Only one mention of Trump, and it was from an RFK quote. How refreshingly restrained compared to similar announcements by other departments.
Good, Kratom (as sold in products like Feel Free) is fucking awful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLObpcBR2yw
Feel Free (and similar) extracts like this are especially onerous. It's no longer Kratom powder that takes a lot of effort to get into trouble with.
These extracts are not very well studied, and may be stronger than many Schedule II opioids. Especially for certain brain chemistries.
In no world should Feel Free execs not be in prison at this point. They know precisely what they are doing, and their marketing is especially nasty since they market it towards addicts as a safe alchohol alternative.
Kratom powders of 15 years ago can be defended in many ways. These extracts have absolutely no leg to stand on. They are an end-around opioid scheduling.
It’s wild that this stuff has remained unregulated for so long. Usually that can be attributed to the demographics (perceived or real) of the users though.
See, where you went wrong was… you started taking something called ‘Kratom’… from a local gas station.
"temporarily"
John Oliver has a good segment about this
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRZqHzDG_c8
Good. That kratom crap can go.
I know very little of this but it seems like not all things kratom are affected.
> This temporary scheduling action does not apply to botanical kratom products that contain naturally occurring 7-OH below the specified threshold. Instead, it targets synthesized products and those containing elevated concentrations of 7-OH as outlined in the temporary scheduling order. DEA believes these substances pose an imminent threat to public safety given their effects are highly unpredictable.
According to the ROI (https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2026/07/06/2026-13...), the threshold isn't yet fixed but the suggested value would be 1 milligram. Doses sold are in grams so this would ban kratom.
Paragraph A,not paragraph B applies to actual kratom leaf.
Kratom is great. I used to make a kratom chai tea, felt similar to hydrocodone
Crack is great, it gets you really high.
Everything in moderation. I know a few successful adults who have tried crack. Personally, I'd never want to try it but people can do what they want. I've been around people high on powder cocaine a few times and they were incredibly annoying.
This is the proper response. I'm sure heroin feels really really really good. The amount of addicts in this thread defending their addiction is surprising.
PS: Is that a Mr. Show reference?
The Mr.Show lie detector skit for anyone wondering.
I have never used kratom, and I don't plan on it. But automatically assuming anyone who isn't hellbent against it is just a junkie "defending their addiction" is pretty close minded lol.
I assume these are zoomer drugs no one above 30 has heard of because they have shit to do?
7-OH is the name for derivatives of kratom that contain the active ingredients.
It has opioid-like addiction tendencies.
Lots of people who used kratom to wean themselves off opioids are now addicted to 7-OH. This includes many people over the age of 30.
It's a not-opioid that just plays with the opiate receptors in your brain and can be purchased in a concentrated form at your nearest gas station in a lot of US States.
Kratom has been around for a while, I remember seeing it in headshops at least a decade ago.
This is different. There’s the plant. Contains about 1.5% mitragynine.
Then there were purified extracts of the active alkaloids in the plant. Started around 30% mitragynine years ago now in the 85% range.
Then there were synthetic derivatives of mitragynine (7oh, mgm-15, etc.). These are much more fun/addictive and surprisingly safe. Almost all “overdoses” involved a mix of alcohol or other drugs. Much safer than fentanyl or traditional opioids because it doesn’t meaningfully trigger respiratory depression leading to asphyxiation. Unfortunately, they’re also addictive. The harm level, imho, was somewhere around alcohol or nicotine.
I used to order it online in like 2005. Crude extracts were available maybe since 2007. The plant almost got banned several years ago. Then over the last few years all these extracts and derivatives have been coming out. MGM-15 is stronger than heroin from what I've heard. Strongest stuff I ever tried was a mitragynine gummy and it felt like hydrocodone. That one gummy had the effects of what I used to get from a couple cups of tea. Good stuff but not risking addiction to try it again. Made me nauseous too
Evan Edinger (who is 35) was addicted to it (see YouTube link).
I thought they were talking about krokodil, but nope... I've literally never heard of 7-oh.