I caught a diagnosis of cancer last year. Fortunately, I'm in the US and have a good PPO. I only wiped out half of my emergency savings in the last 12 months. I had the foresight to keep 12 months of expenses on hand, 6 months like they advise is the bare minimum.
Less than three months passed between the diagnosis and when I first got sent to collections.
You wouldn't believe the deluge of bills that come in from doctors, imaging centers, and various labs. If you need to get in an ambulance, you may get bills from both the ambulance company AND the fire fighers who show up and check out the action while the paramedics work. That audience alone set me back $225. I think the ambulance wanted another $200 on top of that. They dinged my insurance $2800. I was driven 700 feet to the emergency room. I don't recall a whole lot, but I asked for and received 7 heated blankets in the ER. $50 each.
The bill that got me sent to collections was for less than $60 for a lab in Texas. They sent two bills that got buried in the pile next to the door. At the time I got the collections call, I found it challenging to walk from my bed to the mailbox. My surgeon wanted me to walk one mile per day. My credit is about 80 points lower now.
I had hoped that the ACA would be a stepping stone to a better health system in this country. It could still happen, but not while we allow corporations to seek rents as we all inevitably fall ill. Until then, OP is right, don't get sick in America.
If you have hundreds of thousands in medical bills at once, sure. That's good bang for your buck. If you've been paying monthly for medical insurance, get a tear in your eye that needs surgery, and now how to pay fully out of pocket for that surgery because it still isn't expensive enough for insurance to step in, that's a lot of money.
Of course, the post has no numbers, so it's impossible to judge the quality of the insurance plan. And the deductible isn't exactly a surprise, you know it when you get the plan, so paying this much when you have an emergency shouldn't be a surprise either. It still sucks if you can't afford better.
Don't forget the extra-fun deductible reset button that insurance companies get to hit every year. If your timing is particularly unlucky, you can end up paying that deductible twice (or nearly twice) for some health event.
Are you Canadian? I ask because I’ve never met someone from a Western country with free healthcare who wishes they had our healthcare system.
I lived in Australia for five years and when I came home to the USA, I realized that most people here in America are indoctrinated to believe our system (for anything not just healthcare) is better than everyone else’s when it just isn’t true
This. Whenever I hear somebody defending the US healthcare system (or criticizing another country's healthcare plan), my immediate questions are:
1. Where are you from?
2. Have you actually LIVED in another country and thus have some personal experience with other systems?
For the record, I lived in Taiwan for years and was enrolled in the NHI (National Health Insurance) and received far better care including surgical procedures than I ever did in the states even with a PPO.
Yep. Costs for healthcare in other countries have a basis in reality. Here it’s about charging as much as they can get away with. No competition or transparency.
I was well off, 20 years at Apple, didn’t help me or my wife [1]. I don’t think the NHS is perfect, but I also don’t think they’d intentionally mistreat someone to make more profit. Healthcare in the USA is genuinely fucked, and in some cases, genuinely evil.
Why is this a worthwhile measurement? Some cases can wait without having any negative medical implications, this measurement seems to gloss over this and to me it isn't obvious what the median ought to be. Is it obvious to you?
Ok, "most". I think it's a hard sell to go to people that have socialized health care and be like "what if instead of a slightly longer wait, instead you had a system where bureaucrats at insurance providers pull rank over doctors on the treatments you're allowed to receive, and your ability to get healthcare is tied to your employment, and if you get sick you're going to go bankrupt"
Also, the wait time in OUR system sucks too. Try to find a psychiatrist that isn't booked like 3 months in advance. (AI isn't helping with the number of people that need psychiatric services..)
This was commissioned by the Canadian Medical Association and it is certain that the CMA is cherry picking which results to show on their site. The surveyed doctors are only members of the CMA.
Also this survey dates back to 2023, post pandemic, a time when wait times were longer than usual.
Health insurance in America is criminal. It provides as little service as possible as opaquely as possible via dystopian attrition processes to obstruct you in every way possible. Then its's the most expensive in the world. It's a garbage product. I almost cancel it every year then wonder why I didn't.
I caught a diagnosis of cancer last year. Fortunately, I'm in the US and have a good PPO. I only wiped out half of my emergency savings in the last 12 months. I had the foresight to keep 12 months of expenses on hand, 6 months like they advise is the bare minimum.
Less than three months passed between the diagnosis and when I first got sent to collections.
You wouldn't believe the deluge of bills that come in from doctors, imaging centers, and various labs. If you need to get in an ambulance, you may get bills from both the ambulance company AND the fire fighers who show up and check out the action while the paramedics work. That audience alone set me back $225. I think the ambulance wanted another $200 on top of that. They dinged my insurance $2800. I was driven 700 feet to the emergency room. I don't recall a whole lot, but I asked for and received 7 heated blankets in the ER. $50 each.
The bill that got me sent to collections was for less than $60 for a lab in Texas. They sent two bills that got buried in the pile next to the door. At the time I got the collections call, I found it challenging to walk from my bed to the mailbox. My surgeon wanted me to walk one mile per day. My credit is about 80 points lower now.
I had hoped that the ACA would be a stepping stone to a better health system in this country. It could still happen, but not while we allow corporations to seek rents as we all inevitably fall ill. Until then, OP is right, don't get sick in America.
> One health problem has me hitting 75% of my full-price, high deductible... and this doesn’t even include my much more intensive second surgery yet.
I'm confused, don't you want to reach your deductible as soon as possible? Isn't that when your insurance actually starts paying out?
Well, if your deductible is like $8000 or something (high deductible), you kind of want to avoid hitting that if possible, because you're out $8000
If you have hundreds of thousands in medical bills at once, sure. That's good bang for your buck. If you've been paying monthly for medical insurance, get a tear in your eye that needs surgery, and now how to pay fully out of pocket for that surgery because it still isn't expensive enough for insurance to step in, that's a lot of money.
Of course, the post has no numbers, so it's impossible to judge the quality of the insurance plan. And the deductible isn't exactly a surprise, you know it when you get the plan, so paying this much when you have an emergency shouldn't be a surprise either. It still sucks if you can't afford better.
Don't forget the extra-fun deductible reset button that insurance companies get to hit every year. If your timing is particularly unlucky, you can end up paying that deductible twice (or nearly twice) for some health event.
Sure but its a good news bad news kind of thing. Yay I hit my deductible I only need to shell out the co-pay!
Translation:
1. I spent the absolute maximum amount of money which can be substantial if you're on a high deductible plan
2. I had a very unhealthy year
Whenever I worry about the cost of groceries, I think about the amount of healthcare spending (and pain) one can avoid if healthy - it helps.
Meanwhile the median wait for treatment is approximately 7 months in Canada
Are you Canadian? I ask because I’ve never met someone from a Western country with free healthcare who wishes they had our healthcare system.
I lived in Australia for five years and when I came home to the USA, I realized that most people here in America are indoctrinated to believe our system (for anything not just healthcare) is better than everyone else’s when it just isn’t true
This. Whenever I hear somebody defending the US healthcare system (or criticizing another country's healthcare plan), my immediate questions are:
1. Where are you from?
2. Have you actually LIVED in another country and thus have some personal experience with other systems?
For the record, I lived in Taiwan for years and was enrolled in the NHI (National Health Insurance) and received far better care including surgical procedures than I ever did in the states even with a PPO.
Yep. Costs for healthcare in other countries have a basis in reality. Here it’s about charging as much as they can get away with. No competition or transparency.
Maybe the title should be "Don't be Poor in America" . If you're rich then there's really no issue.
I was well off, 20 years at Apple, didn’t help me or my wife [1]. I don’t think the NHS is perfect, but I also don’t think they’d intentionally mistreat someone to make more profit. Healthcare in the USA is genuinely fucked, and in some cases, genuinely evil.
1:https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44217106
Why is this a worthwhile measurement? Some cases can wait without having any negative medical implications, this measurement seems to gloss over this and to me it isn't obvious what the median ought to be. Is it obvious to you?
And yet if you ask any canadian, they all prefer their system to ours.
All?
Let's see what the Canadian Medical Association survey says.
https://www.cma.ca/our-focus/public-and-private-health-care/...
Ok, "most". I think it's a hard sell to go to people that have socialized health care and be like "what if instead of a slightly longer wait, instead you had a system where bureaucrats at insurance providers pull rank over doctors on the treatments you're allowed to receive, and your ability to get healthcare is tied to your employment, and if you get sick you're going to go bankrupt"
Also, the wait time in OUR system sucks too. Try to find a psychiatrist that isn't booked like 3 months in advance. (AI isn't helping with the number of people that need psychiatric services..)
This was commissioned by the Canadian Medical Association and it is certain that the CMA is cherry picking which results to show on their site. The surveyed doctors are only members of the CMA.
Also this survey dates back to 2023, post pandemic, a time when wait times were longer than usual.
Health insurance in America is criminal. It provides as little service as possible as opaquely as possible via dystopian attrition processes to obstruct you in every way possible. Then its's the most expensive in the world. It's a garbage product. I almost cancel it every year then wonder why I didn't.