I really wish a Apple or another major OEM would integrate CO2 monitor into watches or smartphones. Suddenly, everybody would be aware of the CO2 level in the room, get alerts, etc. and the problem will just solve itself.
There are so many rooms, classrooms, movie theaters and other places with poor ventilation where you just feel dizzy, or fall asleep, not knowing it was just due to lower oxygen levels in your blood. Raising awareness is the only real solution.
I guess the problem is with the price of the sensors. Just look how expensive the Aranet 4 home shown in article is. There are worse devices for less like the IKEA alpstuga. I also don’t know how much electricity they pull.
I got the ikea sensor, I’d say it’s way more accurate than you need for personal use. I wouldn’t use it as a scientific instrument but it’s well good enough to see if the room is ventilated enough.
I was shocked to see just how fast CO2 climbs while in a room, and how just opening the window just a crack was enough to restore the room to baseline co2.
The thing runs on usb 5v so the power consumption is negligible. It also plugs in to home assistant great.
I don't think that's true at all. Capnography, the measure of carbon dioxide partial pressure is wholly separate from pulseox:
> Pulse oximeters have some limitations. They can only employ light at two wavelengths. Thus the devices can only distinguish between hemoglobin and oxygenated hemoglobin. When carboxyhemoglobin and methemoglobin are also present, there are two additional wavelengths required for differentiation. In the presence of elevated carboxyhemoglobin levels, pulse oximetry overestimates the true saturation of oxygen as carboxyhemoglobin binds with a higher affinity than oxygen. In the case of carbon monoxide poisoning, the absorbance spectrum of carbon monoxide is very similar to hemoglobin, which results in a falsely high level of oxygen (overestimation of oxygen saturation) ...
Oh this is absolutely so relevant and I wonder if there are any high quality studies that have analyzed driving performance against CO2 buildup in cars. Cars often ship with circulate air feature in the aircon, and people use it aggressively, nonchalantly at least where I live, having no idea about the dangers of possible hypoxia and sleepiness that might be inducing in them while driving. It is absolutely critical in my opinion for cars to have CO2 monitors. We put so many sensors in cars these days that this seems to be a really cheap and fairly high value of life addition that could possibly prevent accidents on roads. I keep a portable CO2 sensor in my car at all times, because sometimes circulation is not something I can avoid when stuck in traffic or when passing by a drain.
Got a firsthand experience with this. I was dropping off my girlfriend and we stopped to talk in the car, with all the windows up. Over the course of the conversation we got more and more agitated at each other until I had a thought and pulled my Aranet out from my backpack. It was >3000ppm CO2. We opened windows and within 2 minutes all the agitation went away.
I don't think you can cleanly compare this: In the study, they added CO2 to the room, while keeping O2 at normoxic levels throughout the experiment. In your meeting room, O2 levels will be dropping in lock-step with the CO2-levels rising. It may be the lack of oxygen that leads to drowsiness, not the additional CO2. But it's the CO2 levels that you can measure as a good proxy of overall air quality.
One key difference is that submariners are rigorously trained to operate effectively in less-than-optimal environmental conditions, whereas Bob from accounting probably is not.
Though that study included a 45 minute acclimation period. Appropriate for submarines, but I wonder what the results would be in the first 1 / 5 / 10 minutes.
I’m not saying this isn’t a legitimate concern but this really seems to have exploded amongst the tech community as the next obsession.
I see this pop up on X every few weeks. Is the concern about this really based on actual science? Is there empirical data proving people are less productive or are damaging themselves as a result of heightened CO2 levels? And I don’t mean observational epidemiology studies.
CO2 is just a tip as office or home is toxic environment anyway. Plastic (e.g. carpets), formaldehyde in furniture, air fresheners… add home office and cooking at home (-> small carcinogenic particles)…
If you start reading How not to die by Michael Greger, you find out that dust, soda and sitting - not CO2 - are real killers…
It's similar to how people think sharks and airplanes are the biggest killers - when in reality it is coconuts, mosquitoes, and motorcycles.
My previous employer had dogs shit on carpets, without proper desinfection! Just smearing excrements into carpet, waiting for it to dry out, so it can go airborne!
Air filters, decluttering, regular deep cleaning, replacing dust-friendly surfaces and furniture (such as carpet, drapes, and upholstered sofas) with things like wood, vinyl, or leather. HVAC maintenance, cleaning, and filters. Washable allergen covers for things like pillows and mattresses.
HEPA-filter air purifier and a robot vacuum that is scheduled to run while your are not in the apartment (to reduce baseline dust) are probably the most simple/cost-effective measures.
Don't forget too, if the CO2 is 1000 ppm, then half of the air in each breath you inhale was recently exhaled by someone else. Yes, airborne viruses are still spreading. I still wear an N95 mask whenever I'm in an indoor space with other people outside of home.
IKEA now has a remarkably cheap ($35) air quality monitor that measures CO2 as well as PM:
I don't have one yet but plan to pick one up soon. A CO2 sensor alone from Adafruit is $50+, though that one is more precise. I bought it a while ago and it's still sitting in my todo bin.
> Then, somewhere in the second hour, the room quietly gets worse at making them.
Maybe it's not just the air but also the multi-hour meetings that drive people to a sense of "oh god let this finally end now", which leads do decisions that fall short.
The building science community has not buy and large came to the agreement that the CO2 itself is the cause of the cognitive decline. It could be the Canary in the coal mine telling us there is an accumulation of compounds causing the decline.
Why that matters? You need good ventilation regardless, but instead of just thinking of CO2, try to minimize compounds in your air by selecting things for the room that smell less and off-gas less.
I really wish a Apple or another major OEM would integrate CO2 monitor into watches or smartphones. Suddenly, everybody would be aware of the CO2 level in the room, get alerts, etc. and the problem will just solve itself.
There are so many rooms, classrooms, movie theaters and other places with poor ventilation where you just feel dizzy, or fall asleep, not knowing it was just due to lower oxygen levels in your blood. Raising awareness is the only real solution.
I guess the problem is with the price of the sensors. Just look how expensive the Aranet 4 home shown in article is. There are worse devices for less like the IKEA alpstuga. I also don’t know how much electricity they pull.
I got the ikea sensor, I’d say it’s way more accurate than you need for personal use. I wouldn’t use it as a scientific instrument but it’s well good enough to see if the room is ventilated enough.
I was shocked to see just how fast CO2 climbs while in a room, and how just opening the window just a crack was enough to restore the room to baseline co2.
The thing runs on usb 5v so the power consumption is negligible. It also plugs in to home assistant great.
Apple watches already have a blood-oxygen sensor so it's covered, albeit indirectly.
I don't think that's true at all. Capnography, the measure of carbon dioxide partial pressure is wholly separate from pulseox:
> Pulse oximeters have some limitations. They can only employ light at two wavelengths. Thus the devices can only distinguish between hemoglobin and oxygenated hemoglobin. When carboxyhemoglobin and methemoglobin are also present, there are two additional wavelengths required for differentiation. In the presence of elevated carboxyhemoglobin levels, pulse oximetry overestimates the true saturation of oxygen as carboxyhemoglobin binds with a higher affinity than oxygen. In the case of carbon monoxide poisoning, the absorbance spectrum of carbon monoxide is very similar to hemoglobin, which results in a falsely high level of oxygen (overestimation of oxygen saturation) ...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK539754/
Oh this is absolutely so relevant and I wonder if there are any high quality studies that have analyzed driving performance against CO2 buildup in cars. Cars often ship with circulate air feature in the aircon, and people use it aggressively, nonchalantly at least where I live, having no idea about the dangers of possible hypoxia and sleepiness that might be inducing in them while driving. It is absolutely critical in my opinion for cars to have CO2 monitors. We put so many sensors in cars these days that this seems to be a really cheap and fairly high value of life addition that could possibly prevent accidents on roads. I keep a portable CO2 sensor in my car at all times, because sometimes circulation is not something I can avoid when stuck in traffic or when passing by a drain.
Relevant video of someone experimenting with a CO2 monitor in a car: https://youtu.be/hr9w-ZixAqc
Got a firsthand experience with this. I was dropping off my girlfriend and we stopped to talk in the car, with all the windows up. Over the course of the conversation we got more and more agitated at each other until I had a thought and pulled my Aranet out from my backpack. It was >3000ppm CO2. We opened windows and within 2 minutes all the agitation went away.
Submarines operate in the 1000s of PPM CO2 range and the sailors aboard generally do not experience any ill effects. This was tested and no deficits were found even at 15,000 PPM: https://asma.kglmeridian.com/view/journals/amhp/89/6/article...
I don't think you can cleanly compare this: In the study, they added CO2 to the room, while keeping O2 at normoxic levels throughout the experiment. In your meeting room, O2 levels will be dropping in lock-step with the CO2-levels rising. It may be the lack of oxygen that leads to drowsiness, not the additional CO2. But it's the CO2 levels that you can measure as a good proxy of overall air quality.
One key difference is that submariners are rigorously trained to operate effectively in less-than-optimal environmental conditions, whereas Bob from accounting probably is not.
If that study was of submariners, is it possible long-term high-level exposure causes the body to adapt?
I am suspicious of 0.1% having a significant effect though, given oxygen is around 20% and we naturally exhale a couple of percent CO2.
Though that study included a 45 minute acclimation period. Appropriate for submarines, but I wonder what the results would be in the first 1 / 5 / 10 minutes.
I’m not saying this isn’t a legitimate concern but this really seems to have exploded amongst the tech community as the next obsession.
I see this pop up on X every few weeks. Is the concern about this really based on actual science? Is there empirical data proving people are less productive or are damaging themselves as a result of heightened CO2 levels? And I don’t mean observational epidemiology studies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nh_vxpycEA
A lot of CO2 is bad for thinking.
CO2 is just a tip as office or home is toxic environment anyway. Plastic (e.g. carpets), formaldehyde in furniture, air fresheners… add home office and cooking at home (-> small carcinogenic particles)…
If you start reading How not to die by Michael Greger, you find out that dust, soda and sitting - not CO2 - are real killers…
It's similar to how people think sharks and airplanes are the biggest killers - when in reality it is coconuts, mosquitoes, and motorcycles.
My previous employer had dogs shit on carpets, without proper desinfection! Just smearing excrements into carpet, waiting for it to dry out, so it can go airborne!
How do you avoid/reduce exposure to dust? Genuine question
Air filters, decluttering, regular deep cleaning, replacing dust-friendly surfaces and furniture (such as carpet, drapes, and upholstered sofas) with things like wood, vinyl, or leather. HVAC maintenance, cleaning, and filters. Washable allergen covers for things like pillows and mattresses.
HEPA-filter air purifier and a robot vacuum that is scheduled to run while your are not in the apartment (to reduce baseline dust) are probably the most simple/cost-effective measures.
Use an air purifier, wear a respirator outside if you live in a polluted place.
There needs to be a meter for the amount of AI writing in blogposts. Same physics, same climb, same afternoon fog.
Yeah, it's really tiring reading Claude's output all day, every day. Nowadays I yearn for a different style.
“That number matters more than it looks.”, then the next paragraph starts with “Here is the uncomfortable part”, and then I closed the tab.
Don't forget too, if the CO2 is 1000 ppm, then half of the air in each breath you inhale was recently exhaled by someone else. Yes, airborne viruses are still spreading. I still wear an N95 mask whenever I'm in an indoor space with other people outside of home.
IKEA now has a remarkably cheap ($35) air quality monitor that measures CO2 as well as PM:
https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/alpstuga-air-quality-sensor-sma...
I don't have one yet but plan to pick one up soon. A CO2 sensor alone from Adafruit is $50+, though that one is more precise. I bought it a while ago and it's still sitting in my todo bin.
I do not give a damm about masks, but yet another reason to prefer work from home.
Flu and other air transmited diseases should be treated as a workplace injury, with proper compensation!
> Then, somewhere in the second hour, the room quietly gets worse at making them.
Maybe it's not just the air but also the multi-hour meetings that drive people to a sense of "oh god let this finally end now", which leads do decisions that fall short.
I am able to open the windows at home and at work but have to be reminded to air out, but I always feel much clearer when I do.
Also, take walks. I am lucky to be able to walk to and from work and it helps immensely.
Buying one of these gadgets killed my brain fog
i love seeing things i saw on twitter two years ago at the front page of hn man like what are we doing
Yet another reason to have meetings while walking outside: air quality and a natural limit on time, and the mental benefits that come from movement.
Requires an area around your office that isn't ugly or overrun with cars.
requires that everyone is comfortable walking and has no physical impairments.
Not to talk about the weather either.
> You gather your most expensive people into a room to make your most important decisions.
A terrible way to make decisions.
What should be a better way?
The building science community has not buy and large came to the agreement that the CO2 itself is the cause of the cognitive decline. It could be the Canary in the coal mine telling us there is an accumulation of compounds causing the decline.
Why that matters? You need good ventilation regardless, but instead of just thinking of CO2, try to minimize compounds in your air by selecting things for the room that smell less and off-gas less.