This forum discusses information freedom pretty much all day every day. Now we have a real world example of suppression of information in the US which is rather rare and people (see comments) using technology to evade it.
why do you think it's because of trump supporters, I'm curious if you have evidence of trump affiliated suppression on HN (notwithstanding the actual segment which could certainly be said to be trump suppressed) - maybe people just don't want politics on here. in any case there's one: Cecot – 60 Minutes (archive.org), on the front page anyway.
"Trump supporter" is a coded bad word on HN that lets you use ad hominem without getting flagged or taken to task. It doesn't mean an actual Trump supporter but rather means you are some kind of pariah.
I’ve gone through all the previous submission and I still don’t understand what this is about. I mean i can get bits and pieces from the comments but I miss the big picture. I’m neither American nor terminally online, so that might be why.
Who is Bari Weiss? Why does it matter what she thinks? Without watching an hour of American TV, what’s in that episode that she wants it suppressed so bad?
I mean we all know that the US sends people without due process to a Salvatoran prison, that’s (terrible and) not new. So what is, that it gets HN this hotheaded?
Bari Weiss is a woman who used to be an editor and opinion columnist at the NYT. She was pushed out of the NYT. Some claim she quit to become a martyr to those on the right, but if you look at what happened, like her co-workers openly insulting her in the company chat, it doesn't look good.
She went on to found a center right online publication. Then she was named the head of CBS News. She's arguably less qualified than most, but she's not as unqualified as others claim she is.
All of this has gotten people really worked up about her.
It's worth noting, I guess, that she's also a lesbian. I only say that because I've noticed that it's most often people who have the "right" social characteristics that get the most aggressive responses. The people criticizing her wouldn't expect a white male to do anything else, but those that step out like Weiss often get the most pushback.
I think you're skipping part of the reason people are annoyed at her: she had consistently claimed that she's trying to advance the case of free speech (her publication was even called "the free press"). So there's a great deal of hypocrisy in her imposing top-down pro-regime censorship on a major news organization.
But her first notable achievement in her career was calling for professors to be disciplined for criticisms of Israel, so that claim to be about free speech was always an obvious lie.
That's a decent point, but I left it out for two reasons. One is that she's the head of the news department. Part of her job is to decide what goes out or not. Two is that it isn't clear if it's postponed or not.
> I only say that because I've noticed that it's most often people who have the "right" social characteristics that get the most aggressive responses. The people criticizing her wouldn't expect a white male to do anything else[...]”
I don’t think I’ve ever heard this idea communicated in this kind of framing. I think it makes your point quite striking.
The Free Press is the publication she created that you refer to as "center right". I would not characterize it as center anything, it was created with an agenda to push far right narratives, including the elimination of Palestine. The publication primarily focuses on social issues and anti-woke narratives. In particular, it regularly publishes either outright anti-trans people content, or engages in dishonest concern trolling
People are upset that an investigation piece on a concetration camp got spiked due to purely political reasons. I am not sure what is confusing about it.
Which is the connection I think is interesting to be discussed in the tech circles, we all know that Larry Ellison is dangerous from how heavy handed Oracle always has been with lawsuits.
Now that he is part of the inner circles of the US government, and through his son trying to reach into traditional media it significantly increases the damage potential he can do.
Given the quote from him that mass surveillance would "keep citizens in their best behaviour" it's actually frightening he managed to create proxy censorship through CBS, he's not even that far disconnected, it's simply: Larry Ellison -> David Ellison -> Paramount -> Beri Weiss -> CBS.
Bari Weiss is well known and influential Journalist if you are an American Politico, I never found her particularly interesting. Outside of that she doesn't have much name recognition. It is like Glenn Greenwald, if you care about Snowden you probably know who he is.
Bari Weiss is a conservative journalist that was appointed to the head of cbs under the appearance of being a suck up to Trump. He’s attacked critical news organizations aggressively and that includes 60 minutes.
The fear when she was, recently, appointed was that she’d exert editorial control to hide stories critical of Trump. This episode being buried at least has the appearance of this happening.
yes, but a refusal to at least soberly acknowledge tech's central place in human conflict and it's litteral weaponisation would be another death by capitulation.
that this place retains a certain civility whilst ubber geeks, money grubbers, lightly bored acedemics, and every variety of ax grinders have a go, is testement enough.
the common denominators bieng drive, curiosity, and however grudgingly to count someone elses point, or let it go.
though I will posit that the stakes are higher than just this place, as tech is central to everything now, and figuring that out is everyones respinsibility, so a little heat is guaranteed.
Bieng a pyrologist it's something I am comfortable working with, and while I might discuss something hot, I wont shove somebodys head in the flames.
no adhominum right.
Earlier discussion:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46361024 (543 points, 57 comments)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46362149 (135 points, 8 comments)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46362214 (184 points, 34 comments)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46362032 (137 points, 30 comments)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46361571 (122 points, 7 comments)
And as all of these earlier discussions it will get flagged to death by trump supporters or trump supporter bots.
It's not immediately clear to me why a news piece on a Salvadoran prison is relevant on HN, I guess that's why the flagging.
This forum discusses information freedom pretty much all day every day. Now we have a real world example of suppression of information in the US which is rather rare and people (see comments) using technology to evade it.
why do you think it's because of trump supporters, I'm curious if you have evidence of trump affiliated suppression on HN (notwithstanding the actual segment which could certainly be said to be trump suppressed) - maybe people just don't want politics on here. in any case there's one: Cecot – 60 Minutes (archive.org), on the front page anyway.
"Trump supporter" is a coded bad word on HN that lets you use ad hominem without getting flagged or taken to task. It doesn't mean an actual Trump supporter but rather means you are some kind of pariah.
The first one is still on the front page.
It was flagged off the front page yesterday. I'm not sure for how long, but you can read discussion about this in the thread itself.
Fair point. There is actually a site that tracks this, and that post was off the front page for most of its existence:
https://news.social-protocols.org/stats?id=46361024
The discord people managed to spam this political bs here dozens of times, and still play the victim card. It's sickening
If you don't like the voting and flagging system on Hacker News, there are many other website you can enjoy.
Which ones are the best replacements for HN? Looking for recs
4chan, nostr
I’ve gone through all the previous submission and I still don’t understand what this is about. I mean i can get bits and pieces from the comments but I miss the big picture. I’m neither American nor terminally online, so that might be why.
Who is Bari Weiss? Why does it matter what she thinks? Without watching an hour of American TV, what’s in that episode that she wants it suppressed so bad?
I mean we all know that the US sends people without due process to a Salvatoran prison, that’s (terrible and) not new. So what is, that it gets HN this hotheaded?
Bari Weiss is a woman who used to be an editor and opinion columnist at the NYT. She was pushed out of the NYT. Some claim she quit to become a martyr to those on the right, but if you look at what happened, like her co-workers openly insulting her in the company chat, it doesn't look good.
She went on to found a center right online publication. Then she was named the head of CBS News. She's arguably less qualified than most, but she's not as unqualified as others claim she is.
All of this has gotten people really worked up about her.
It's worth noting, I guess, that she's also a lesbian. I only say that because I've noticed that it's most often people who have the "right" social characteristics that get the most aggressive responses. The people criticizing her wouldn't expect a white male to do anything else, but those that step out like Weiss often get the most pushback.
I think you're skipping part of the reason people are annoyed at her: she had consistently claimed that she's trying to advance the case of free speech (her publication was even called "the free press"). So there's a great deal of hypocrisy in her imposing top-down pro-regime censorship on a major news organization.
But her first notable achievement in her career was calling for professors to be disciplined for criticisms of Israel, so that claim to be about free speech was always an obvious lie.
https://theintercept.com/2018/03/08/the-nyts-bari-weiss-fals...
That's a decent point, but I left it out for two reasons. One is that she's the head of the news department. Part of her job is to decide what goes out or not. Two is that it isn't clear if it's postponed or not.
> I only say that because I've noticed that it's most often people who have the "right" social characteristics that get the most aggressive responses. The people criticizing her wouldn't expect a white male to do anything else[...]”
I don’t think I’ve ever heard this idea communicated in this kind of framing. I think it makes your point quite striking.
The Free Press is the publication she created that you refer to as "center right". I would not characterize it as center anything, it was created with an agenda to push far right narratives, including the elimination of Palestine. The publication primarily focuses on social issues and anti-woke narratives. In particular, it regularly publishes either outright anti-trans people content, or engages in dishonest concern trolling
People are upset that an investigation piece on a concetration camp got spiked due to purely political reasons. I am not sure what is confusing about it.
She was also installed in her role by Oracle's Larry Ellison and his son, Paramount CEO David Ellison, which gives it extra tech credentials.
Which is the connection I think is interesting to be discussed in the tech circles, we all know that Larry Ellison is dangerous from how heavy handed Oracle always has been with lawsuits.
Now that he is part of the inner circles of the US government, and through his son trying to reach into traditional media it significantly increases the damage potential he can do.
Given the quote from him that mass surveillance would "keep citizens in their best behaviour" it's actually frightening he managed to create proxy censorship through CBS, he's not even that far disconnected, it's simply: Larry Ellison -> David Ellison -> Paramount -> Beri Weiss -> CBS.
The 'postponed' 60 Minutes segment is only 15 minutes long...
https://archive.org/details/insidececot
Bari Weiss is well known and influential Journalist if you are an American Politico, I never found her particularly interesting. Outside of that she doesn't have much name recognition. It is like Glenn Greenwald, if you care about Snowden you probably know who he is.
Bari Weiss is a conservative journalist that was appointed to the head of cbs under the appearance of being a suck up to Trump. He’s attacked critical news organizations aggressively and that includes 60 minutes.
The fear when she was, recently, appointed was that she’d exert editorial control to hide stories critical of Trump. This episode being buried at least has the appearance of this happening.
I am in the same boat as you. I believe it's mainly a Streisand effect
Seems shocking and appalling to me. In sure an AI could explain how corrupt this is to you if you feed it the article.
HN is pretty consistently anti censorship
But also trying desperately to not become another divisive hotbed of online flame war.
yes, but a refusal to at least soberly acknowledge tech's central place in human conflict and it's litteral weaponisation would be another death by capitulation. that this place retains a certain civility whilst ubber geeks, money grubbers, lightly bored acedemics, and every variety of ax grinders have a go, is testement enough. the common denominators bieng drive, curiosity, and however grudgingly to count someone elses point, or let it go. though I will posit that the stakes are higher than just this place, as tech is central to everything now, and figuring that out is everyones respinsibility, so a little heat is guaranteed. Bieng a pyrologist it's something I am comfortable working with, and while I might discuss something hot, I wont shove somebodys head in the flames. no adhominum right.
Which is why people flag anything negative about Trump?
[flagged]